The Muslim Brothers are left behind, again
Issandr El AmraniOne of the interesting things about the gigantic turnout on Tahrir Square is that it is happening even as the Muslim Brotherhood has officially opposed the protests and most Salafists done the same, in the name of calming the streets before the elections. This decision is very reminiscent of January 25, when they refused to take part in the first protests leading to the overthrow of the Mubarak regime. The same goes for the Salafists, who apart from Hazem Salah Abu Ismail, have opposed protests and even tried to intervene to stop them in Alexandria yesterday.
This is not to say there are no Muslim Brothers or Salafists, or other religiously-inclined people in Tahrir today. There are.
But their leadership has failed them once more. Once again the Muslim Brotherhood has shown that its basic essence has not changed: just as its leader in 2009 said he had no problems with a Gamal Mubarak presidency and had much respect for Hosni Mubarak, just as they rushed ton negotiate with president-apparent Omar Suleiman in late January, just like they preferred to cut a deal with the military in the transition's early days and accepted a slapdash referendum and constitutional declaration, the Brothers are once again swimming against the prevailing tide of the Egyptian people. They prefer to negotiate for their own maximum advantage rather take a principled position.
I often think the Brothers' biggest problem is not that they are fundamentalist, or out of touch with the Egyptian mainstream, or too radical. It's that they are perceived, rightly, as schemers by average people. It's true of their leaders, at least, and it's what has made so many bright young people leave them in recent years and so many others doubt their intentions.
Reader Comments (14)
A man with the typical beard and galabya of a Salafist, who said he supported the Freedom and Justice and al-Nour parties, told me today in Tahrir square that the MB's refusal to participate was a "big mistake."
The beautiful thing about Revolution 2.0 is that it has side-lined the Islamists and that it made the idea that Tahrit can not fill up without them mythical.
Much is expected from Revolution 2.0
Dioscorus Boles
Coup d'etat 2.0
NB: How can u call the MB unprincipled for refusing to violate the Islamic principle of not attacking the government security forces unless they committ open disbelief. Defending the Interior Ministry doesnt make a scaf policeman a Mubrak, in any case, they look like scared hungry poor people from the provinces, while many of the protestors look like well fed bourgeoisie. Is it wrong to have some empathy for the police who have officers with side arms giving them orders? There must be some humanist nonviolent solution to this standoff.
I think u r right tho, the MB appears to be scheming. They r confident that they win any election hands down, and they know from past experiencer over decaades that any hint of Islamic inspired physical resistance invokes the radical Islam terrorist charge (recall Hamas is a terrorist party under US law and banned, criminalized in USA) The non Islamic parties would never be subhect to the same default state oppression, torture, killings on the same scale as any overt Islamic revolution. Not to mention, there is a foreign policy dimension. Israel is itching to retake Sinai at the slightest profocation o or break in the treaty, and the egyptian military knows it cannot stop them , when they r backed by us air power. so the MB scheming is perhaps a prudent caustion on their part, guided somewhat by Islamic principles it appears.
I hope the revolutionaries can find a solution that permits a true democratic resolition, and not just the undemocratic appointment of a western backed cabinet, which would just be another Libya Nato merc operation, coup detat 2.0
I find it *very* hard to believe that if the roles were reversed, and a liberal party was poised to win an election while the Islamists refused to compromise, you'd censure the former in this manner. The idea that the other political actors are being directed through benevolent, idealist aims while the MB are ruthless schemers is an extremely skewed view.The so called liberal leaders cannot attest to any similar history, yet they're relative commitment to opposition is never questioned. It also must be stated that you are ignoring the extent to which reception to a possible election is shaped by who would win it. Something tells me plenty have as much an issue with the MB as they do SCAF itself, and would like nothing more than to conflate the two, even if a legitimate election produces an MB led parliament.
The Moslem Brotherhood is basically a religious totalitarian movement (cf. their reactions to Erdogan's comments concerning the virutes of a secular system). Like their secular counterparts, religious totalitarians must be scheming; in the absense of subterfuge they have little chance of reaching power; nobody wants their version of life if all the details are clearly laid out; and they are constantly afriad of being found out. They grab their chances when they can; when countries are caught napping or confused.
If coup detat 2.0 succeeds, Baradi's friends, in the interests of democracy, will ban religious participation in politics incarcerate the leaders of the MB as radical islamists, ban polygnny, ban the Nikab, and ban the beard and the Hijab from public employhment. Then for womens rights, they will open up more casinos with legalized prostitution, set up a red light district in rehab, and tax women that dont leave the hosue for work, thereby supporting the new scandanavian day care centers. what a brave new world of freedom for egypt !
Oh I forgot , they will sign a new peace treaty with israel recognizing its annexation of jerusalem in exchange for limited rights to visit the new mosque replacing the old one destroyed to make way for the new temple mount development.
merry xmas everyone.
there is a lot of scheming. It is drawing so called secular liberals into calling for delays in elections. Ansd even supporting the supra constitutional principles that would hacve ensconced scaf in control. All politicians scheme. But to say the MB has been unprincipled or missed the boat on the demos is clear bias on your behalf. With their participation the demos swelled into the millions. Important as the remenants in the square have been withouth the numbers of the MB it is relatively small. Also it is as you say a violent demo which many in the MB are scared of. If it were violent enough it would have given scaf the excuse they needed and could have pinned it on violent muslims. A cautious approach is probably the best for the MB but also for Egypt and the Egyptian people. The last thing we want is postponement of elections and the imposition of an unelected "salvation" governemnt. But of course that is what secular "democrats" want? See any contradiction?
Bilal, you're a genius. That's exactly what all the liberals want - to open casinos, legalize prostitution, force women to work, and sign a peace treaty with Israel - which is about to invade Sinai. How did you figure it all out? It was a closely guarded secret among the liberal community.
Maybe you should step out of your little bubble and stop using straw man tactics in your argument. We expect a more mature discussion. You don't see anyone saying the MB wants all men to grow beards, wear a galabeya, and marry four wives while women live between the bedroom and the kitchen, wear a niqab, and stay out of school because we like to keep our ladies ignorant. We're a little beyond that now. That's part of becoming a democracy - you need to show minimal responsibility when debating.
Try reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
BG is partly correct, the comment was a caricature argument but only partly so. All the policies mentioned r in fact r typical of liberal european laws today,, and were in force in some liberal Muslim states prior to the spring. The ban on Nikab for example is becoming pervasive in european liberalism and so its not a strawman argument to suggest liberal euros would implement the same here.
So the differen,ce between my caricature of the liberal left secularists, and the slander misrepresentation stereotypes of the MB mentioned by BG, is that my caricature has sound foundation in currently espoused liberal politics and law, as it is implemented today.
The slander stereotypes however r just that; lies made for political posturing, without any foundation in Islamic law or practice.
I
Still I may be wrong, perhaps liberal secualrists in egypt r different than their cousins in euroba, but I have yet to read of one that denounces the liberal institutional bigotry which is a part of the legislative baggage of euro liberalism.
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Oh the evil evil foreign hands / liberal Europeans / NATO... seriously Bilal, cut the BS. Generalizations are not making for a good argument except when campaigning. This blog happens to be analytical / academic and not campaign driven.
Since you claim that " All the policies mentioned r in fact r typical of liberal european laws today" and I happen to be a pretty liberal European, let's see what you have there on that list.
>>in the interests of democracy, will ban religious participation in politics
- Actually Christian parties are rather traditional in Europe on the conservative side of the spectrum. In a number of countries including Germany new "Muslim" parties have sprung up, but have not been very successful so far. Name one European country where religiously labelled parties are illegal... ok, there might be one. But can you name two?
(Just as a reminder to our friends who are not on top of European geography, the EU alone currently includes 27 countries.)
>>incarcerate the leaders of the MB as radical islamists,
- Actually, please name one MB or even Salafi leader who is incarcerated in a European country.
>>ban polygnny,
- True, polygamy is not recognized in Europe. There is exceptions to that, but I will not get technical. But if you want to, you can live with four women in Europe. No one cares. That's the beauty of it. If you call them wives or not is your issue. Btw... look up the spelling of polygamy if you care so deeply about it.
PS The regime in Libya you despise so much for being connected to evil evil NATO actually just un-banned polygamy. But who cares for facts, right?
>>ban the Nikab,
- Yes, a minority of European countries ban the Niqab, which just proves that we are not perfect and don't always get it right.
>>and ban the beard and the Hijab from public employhment.
- Name one country in Europe which bans beards.
- Yes, some countries ban the Hijab in certain positions of public employment. Again, it is not a majority and I doubt you can find a single country where the head scarf is completely banned for state employees.
>>Then for womens rights, they will open up more casinos
- Which is clearly linked to women rights. I mean, let women gamble!
Seriously, I have seen more casinos in Egypt now, than in Europe. And control of casinos is relatively strict in most European countries.
>>with legalized prostitution, set up a red light district in rehab,
-Actually prostitution policies are wide and varied in Europe from very liberal in Holland to complete bands in Norway (is it Norway? or Sweden?) While prostitution is legal or tolerated in most European countries, the idea that European government pro-actively support it is non-sense. But again, who cares about facts, right? Sounds so great... all those evil immoral Europeans!
>>and tax women that dont leave the hosue for work, thereby supporting the new scandanavian day care centers.
- Yes we do that in Germany, we tax woman and then send the money to Scandinavia. It's because the Scandinavians are so poor, you know! Aeh... wait... what the hell are you even talking about?
>>Oh I forgot , they will sign a new peace treaty with israel recognizing its annexation of jerusalem in exchange for limited rights to visit the new mosque replacing the old one destroyed to make way for the new temple mount development.
- And how many European countries accept Jerusalem as capital of Israel? I think the answer is "not a single one" but I might be wrong.
>>So the differen,ce between my caricature of the liberal left secularists, and the slander misrepresentation stereotypes of the MB mentioned by BG, is that my caricature has sound foundation in currently espoused liberal politics and law, as it is implemented today.
- Aeh, no! It doesn't! Your knowledge of Europe seems to be primarily what your sheikh in the mosque told you.
Yes, you just have been lawyered!
Cheers and see you at Tahrir!
Or maybe not.
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PS Mourad, I believe you don't read this blog very often, do you? The most scorn of all parties usually goes to Wafd. But hey, suit yourself and don't bother to engage with the points in the article.
Will MB, if it comes to power, respect non-Muslims' (including atheists and agnostics) rights and women's rights, as well as other basic rights and freedoms, you think ?
MORITZ thank u for validating my points. As u pointed out, there r examples of european countries that indeed do, as a matter of law, practice the liberal secular policies that some of us object to. True, its not practised everywhere in the brussells dictatorship run by multinational cartels. On the womans rights issue, I cant take seriously european claims ever since Germany imported 40000 eastern european women , some allegedly forced, to serve as sex workers for the World Cup. This epitomizes the moral degradation of european societies which is why apparently they are dying demographically. I say good riddance to a culture that profitted , created, and sustained colonialism, trasn atlantic slavery, and the destruction of the religious sphere in public life (which may explain nazism, italian fascism, and stalinist communism).
Also, Im glad as u said that not all of europe has banned the Nikab nor minarets, and that not all europeans share the beliefs of Gert Wilders and Anders Breivik, although most polls show a ver healthy minority do indeed share these anti Islamic bigoted views.
The fact that in europe its possible to have a wife and a mistress legally , and perhaps acceptably morally from a euro culturall point of view, but not enter into a contractual comittment with 2 women , giving each and their children certain legal rights, seems completely unexplainable except in terms of population control which has worked fairly well in europe. And Muslims dont call this polygamy, but polygnny, check spelling for me, which means 1 husband with more than 1 wife, polygamy being possibly 2 husbands for one wife. Non contractual polygamy of course is what the germans imported into the eu for their world cup. lol.
as far as incarceration of Muslims goes, it is indeed a hate crime to espose values counter to the euro secular tradition in many countires, and of course the Ameericans work with the europeans to rendition opponents of neo colonilism, to gitmo, or other prisons, for torture and murder. sometimes oppoents of euro cultrue r just assainated with drones or by mossad operations of course.
But , there r probably some evil twins of gert wilders in the opposition to euro secular culture, may we all be protected from this type of bigotry wherever it shows up.
Massi fan then asks the right question, does the MB allow religious diversity and tolerance in its political ideology? It seems so, and if they rescind those stated beliefs, then they should be punished at the polls like any othe rbigots.
But the european secularists dont deny their bigotry indeed they make it a virtue, as if all of us should follow portugal ireland greece and spain downinto the IMF PIGS free trade with china slave goods slaughterhouse. No thanks, Egypt need not follow that route.
in any case, europe's time in history is up, its dying a natural death , demographic extinction. Though humanity suffered under its crimes , it perhaps can gain from itsalso present humanistic traditions. If a humanistic tolerant polity based on transcendant values can be found , it will be in the Muslim awakening, not in coup detat 2.0, euro takeover.
Dear Bilal,
I congratulate you! You prove that evolution does exist. You are the prove of a new type of troll: the bearded troll ("skjegg troll" as it will be know in the correct typology).
Enjoy your achievement!
MORITZ, since every bearded Muslim that makes an argument against the foreign unwanted influence (of the EU technocratic huxley dystopia ) is your enemy and a troll, I hereby surrender my head upon a platter for u to feast:
http://www.escapistart.com/gallery/spider/BeardedTroll2.htm
You may add this photo to your "fascinating" egypt campaign photo collection
Bon appetit